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SORRYBYE进,和你再谈谈ABS的那些事!

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 楼主| 发表于 2012-1-19 00:22 | 显示全部楼层 来自: 中国上海
回复  熵焓


    GL很少给员工设置期限的,如果真有单位催的紧,领导最多让你把该单位的图纸优先完成而 ...
searover 发表于 2012-1-18 18:27



    所以很羡慕你们,关键是看领导的态度。
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 楼主| 发表于 2012-1-19 00:44 | 显示全部楼层 来自: 中国上海
谢谢各位的支持批评和指正,我只是看不过该ABS的HR乱咬人而出言反驳,算是沉默中的爆发。其实加班也好,不加班也好,都没什么,各有各的活法,怕就怕是变相的逼大家免费加班。这次事件的个中缘由明眼人都能看的明白。ABS在形势好的时候为了适应扩张的市场招了太多人,现在市场不好没有这么多的活让大家做。只能请一部分人走人,但是怎么“请”法是有讲究的。当初GL是裁员,这个是要花大笔钱的。ABS现在二鬼子和汉奸多,这些人都了解国情,出的招就更阴了,降低待遇,谁受不了谁走人啊。你自己辞职,ABS是不用付一分钱的。如果有人在帖子里说,“你不接受你走人啊”,那么这个人的心思和来路也就不言自明。让我们好好利用龙船这个平台进行信息共享和交流,一起努力来提升中国人在ABS以及其他所有国外船级社的作用和地位。先转载一篇发表于2006年7月11日的Lloyds List上的旧新闻,外部的人对这则新闻可能没有留意过,不过当时这篇新闻出来的时候,ABS内部的员工一片哗然。这则新闻至今能在网上查到,大家可去搜索。我希望能通过这篇文章从而引出我这几天整理后的一些想法。
Mystery deepens in ABS’ Prestige battle
---Spain has failed to get a New York judge to compel ABS to release financial records of its executive retirement plan. However, a management shake-up at ABS after the apparent suicide of its chief financial officer has thrown the spotlight back on the class society. Does the Prestige fit into all this? Rajesh Joshi sifts through the facts- Tuesday July 11 2006
SPAIN’S $1bn Prestigelegal tussle against American Bureau of Shipping has become murkier, try as the observer may to shrug off the fog.
Spain’s aggressive legal team under Holland & Knight’s Brian Starer recently failed to persuade Judge Ronald Ellis of the US District Court for the Southern District of New York to compel ABS to release paperwork detailing its Supplemental Executive Retirement Plan.
Spain’s petition had contended that this case is similar to New York state attorney general Eliot Spitzer’s lawsuit against Richard Grasso, former chairman of the New York Stock Exchange, where Mr Spitzer alleged that Mr Grasso’s compensation was unreasonable under New York’s corporation law.
Spain also sought to establish that Mercer, the company that prepared a report supporting ABS’ retirement plan, is the same company that certified Mr Grasso’s retirement plan payments.
None of these arguments held water with Judge Ellis, whose June 7 rejection restricted Spain’s discovery to design and construction issues of the Prestige, keeping financial information off-limits.
However, ABS’ own announcement two weeks later of a sweeping management reshuffle that is six months away added an ironically tantalising whiff to Spain’s allegations.
Mr Starer’s case is built on a deposition he took from ABS chairman and chief executive Robert Somerville in March this year.
Mr Somerville reveals that in order to get around US federal caps on pensionable salary for executives employed by not-for-profit organisations such as ABS the class society’s board created a programme under which “daily cash revenues” would bankroll a retirement payment to an eligible executive the year he reached the age of 62.
ABS computes the retirement plan payment based on the excess of the executive’s pay over the federally mandated cap for non-profits, Mr Somerville says. Payment is mandatory once the executive attains the age of 62.
In his own case, this age being reached in 2005, he took $3.8m under the retirement plan that year in addition to $1m salary and bonus, bringing the year’s total remuneration to $4.8m.
Mr Somerville reveals that to his knowledge at least five other ABS executives were entitled to retirement plan payments, of whom four had already cashed out their retirement plan payments after they turned 62.
This quartet includes Frank Iarossi, former chairman and chief executive who was at the helm when the Prestige casualty took place, Admiral Robert Kramek, who is to retire as president and chief operating officer at the end of the year, Vincent Roth, who is also to retire as senior vice president and chief of staff in December, and Donald Liu, the former executive vice-president and chief technology officer.
The amounts this quartet took home will not be known at present following Judge Ellis’ denial of Spain’s discovery request.
Robert Bauerle, chief financial officer, was the sixth man including Mr Somerville on the list of retirement plan recipients but was not 62 and therefore had not received his payout.
According to the Houston Chronicle newspaper, Mr Bauerle died in a car crash in May after apparently being missing for a week.
In effect, therefore, almost every retirement plan beneficiary who was in ABS top management when the Prestige calamity rocked the society is now retired, close to retiring or dead.
Whether Mr Kramek’s anointed replacement Christopher Wiernicki and the US Coast Guard’s newly retired Admiral Thomas Gilmour, appointed ABS Americas president from next January, are eligible for the retirement plan or aware of the programme is a question being asked by people familiar with the case.
The market is also wondering why ABS was in such a hurry to announce a reshuffle that is six months away when there was more curiosity about Mr Bauerle’s replacement, who remains unknown as yet.
Mr Somerville’s pay packet is also being juxtaposed with ABS’ standing as a non-profit-making organisation.
Dennis Bryant, Holland & Knight senior counsel based in Washington, tells Lloyd’s List: “From the outset ABS’ defence in the Prestige case has been that it should not be made to pay damages because as a non-profit organisation it does not have the wherewithal.
“After spending so much time painting itself as a ‘poor little class society’, how is ABS now going to explain the compensation received by its chairman and chief executive?”
Spain’s formal effort to compel ABS to release its retirement plan documents twists the dagger much deeper.
Spain makes two main contentions — that ABS’ funnelling of cash to the plan starved the society of resources with which to hire and train surveyors and that the society’s shift to an overtly profit-driven business has undermined its acknowledged responsibility to the public as a class society.
In the amended complaint of July, 2004, in which Spain increased the damages sought from $750m to $1bn and included ABS’ for-profit consulting subsidiary as co-defendant, Spain states: “At some point in the late 1980s the officers and directors of ABS made an internal strategic business decision to [undertake] for-profit enterprises for their personal gain under the guise of a traditional, independent and objective classification society.”
Mr Starer tells Lloyd’s List, in an oblique reference to former chairman Frank Iarossi’s corporate roots: “If Mr Iarossi came to ABS to do good, he did very well.”
The chilling result of this strategic shift, Spain alleges, is a fateful under-investment in critical manpower.
Spain states: &#147ublicly, ABS has long claimed that as a not-for-profit organisation its mission is to promote the security of life, property at sea and protection of the natural environment.
“ABS allegedly does this by setting design standards, including ABS rules for survey of structural conditions throughout the life of vessels. [This] requires a substantial investment by ABS.
“ABS surveyors are the first line of protection charged with assuring vessels are compliant with ABS rules. ABS management must decide whether to invest limited financial resources in executive pay or to invest in hiring and training new surveyors.”
The Prestige tragedy is directly a function of ABS management opting for the former at the expense of the latter, Spain alleges.
ABS did not respond to a request for comment on the allegations.
The Prestige, a 25-year-old single hull oil tanker laden with nearly 77,000 tonnes of heavy oil, sank 130 miles off Spain’s northwest coast in November, 2002.
Separately, the Prestigelawsuit is far from over. ABS has already replied to Spain’s amended complaint, witheringly rejecting all charges.
ABS’ affirmative defences include an attempt to highlight Spain’s own alleged culpability in refusing the Prestige a place of refuge, something Spain has brushed aside citing its “absolute and sovereign right” to turn away any ship it wants to.
Furthermore, in a creative legal manoeuvre that has caught the attention of legal experts, ABS is invoking the Civil Liability Convention in demanding that the only forum for litigation ought to be Spain, and that ABS itself should be allowed to avail itself of convention limits as a shipowner would.
Spain, for its part, has demanded a trial. If it happens, it will take at least until the summer of next year to begin.
Pending the disposal of such weighty matters, the spotlight for now remains on ABS and its top brass — both outgoing and incoming.
Source: www.lloydslist.com
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发表于 2012-1-19 09:48 | 显示全部楼层 来自: 中国上海
大过年的,ABS还在那边对骂,烦不烦啊,发给你们老板去...
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发表于 2012-1-19 10:19 | 显示全部楼层 来自: 中国上海
不关心楼主说的福利待遇之类的,但有一个强烈的,长期的感觉:上海ABS的年轻审图工程师书都读的很好,但缺少重要 ...
jackxie200506 发表于 2012-1-11 21:55



    强烈同意楼上观点,和各大船级社审图人员也打交道十年了,有时候,特别是仅几年年轻的审图工程师层出不穷,他们文凭不低,英文很好,但是审图时时纯理论,和实际脱节,有时候为了避免争吵,为了尽快退审,就算明知是错误的意见有也只能接受,只为早点拿到盖章的退审图,我个人认为不管什么船级社,审图工程师最好能在船厂一线,设计公司或设计院做过四五年,最后再去审图,相信会对规范和实际有个平衡的把握,最后要说的是,做这个行业谁都不容易,只能希望大家互相多理解沟通了!
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匿名
匿名  发表于 2012-1-19 10:42 来自: 中国上海
所以很羡慕你们,关键是看领导的态度。
熵焓 发表于 2012-1-19 00:22



    欢迎来GL审图,一个几乎没有加班和长薪的天堂,每天坐吃等死....
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发表于 2012-1-19 13:25 | 显示全部楼层 来自: 中国山东烟台
回复 64# feiqiang

理论上讲:
搞设计的,必须在现场干过几年.比如3年.
搞审图的,最好在设计院干过几年,比如再3年.
规范研究所的,最好干过审图几年,比如再再3年.
也就是说,起草规范的应该是各环节都见过世面的爷爷(当然可以找个小硕小博当助手).

现在规范不考虑实际情况,刚生效又改回来的地方太多了,简直是坑爹,经常打电话给船级社朋友反映,一般答复是:哦,XX设计院,XX船厂也反映过这个问题,等我们向上......爷爷们啊,您可是起草法律的,掌握着生杀大权,能慎重点不?
(这里不谈谁重要,谁应该薪水多).

以上理论同样用于军事,可以想象,如果高级指挥员(决策者)是个想当然的主儿,基层打仗战士可苦逼了,简直没法干.

有的时候,真想粗粗的骂几声.
(不过,这是个社会问题,发发牢骚而已)
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匿名
匿名  发表于 2012-1-19 14:22 来自: 中国上海
回复  feiqiang

理论上讲:
搞设计的,必须在现场干过几年.比如3年.
搞审图的,最好在设计院干过几年,比 ...
老侠客 发表于 2012-1-19 13:25



    领导,你说得很对啊,可是规范是审图的这帮中国人定的不?你跟他们说有用么?连CCS都不是审图的中国人定的规范,虽然规范所也是中国人....
    就像每次退审图纸给设计院和船厂一样,今天A知道怎么改了,明天B的图纸过来同样错误,谁都恨不得别人能全改掉,在中国基本上除了MARIC和SDARI,其他地方几乎都不可能....
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发表于 2012-1-19 14:40 | 显示全部楼层 来自: 中国上海
回复 66# 老侠客


    还少说三年, 在船上呆三年.

全中国每几个人吧.
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发表于 2012-1-19 14:47 | 显示全部楼层 来自: 中国上海
回复  feiqiang

理论上讲:
搞设计的,必须在现场干过几年.比如3年.
搞审图的,最好在设计院干过几年,比 ...
老侠客 发表于 2012-1-19 13:25


您说的太理想化了,任何公司都是几个大拿带着下面的年轻人在工作,都像您说的那种情况,人根本就找不到.
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发表于 2012-1-19 16:22 | 显示全部楼层 来自: 中国山东烟台
回复 69# diangong2012

是有点太理想化,我开头说是“理论上”,最后说,这是社会问题。
不过,如果社会风气好点的话,也许能好点。
曾经和某国合作造过船,这个国家(至少那家企业)的人和我讲,在企业的 生产,经营,质检等等管理部门做管理人员,必须先在“技术部门”做一年或几年(具体我忘了),当然,在生产一线实习就更不用说了。
个人感觉,N多年前,咱国家还讲点规矩,现在如果谁还这么想,让人笑话(你们可以笑话我)。
但,理确实是那么个理。

现在这社会风气,造船(工业)要想超过某些国家,倒是有可能,前提是人家根本就不太造船了。否则,追上是吹牛。
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发表于 2012-1-19 16:25 | 显示全部楼层 来自: 中国山东烟台
在这个国家还有个特点,基本上没有随便跳槽的,从工资(提升)制度福利待遇的规定,ZF根本就不提倡跳槽,不象我们,越跳薪水越高。
这个制度优越性在于,至少不是傻子,基本上干本职工作早晚都是专家。
已经跑题了,打住。
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发表于 2012-1-19 16:28 | 显示全部楼层 来自: 中国山东烟台
刚才写错个字。
这个制度优越性在于:只要 不是傻子,人人都成为本职工作(工种)的专家了。
倒也没必要非要(一定要)硕士博士才能啥啥的。(是当然更好)。
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发表于 2012-1-19 16:31 | 显示全部楼层 来自: 中国山东烟台
回复 68# ge2000

我只是举例说,大概那么个意思。

非得3+3+3++3是抬杠呵。
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发表于 2012-1-19 16:53 | 显示全部楼层 来自: 中国山东烟台
回复 67# Anonymous

我这个圈子一般是这样的:
常年干设计,审图中心总是有老朋友的,但规范研究所因为不打交道所以不太认识,况且图纸干完了,也得审图中心来审。
所以,一般新规范或通报下来后,如果我觉得不合理,会和审图有经验的人沟通,经常发现,我提的问题,兄弟单位(设计院或船厂)其实人家也提了(所见略同),比较好的审图人员会汇总意见向上反映。如果我们直接向规范所反映,太正式太官方了,往往不容易解决问题。
往往会发现,第二年或几年,规范果然修改或加个补充,针对某些船。。。。我经历的这种例子很多,不一一列举。
这几天,我们还沟通过一个事,审图的大哥说:是的,(对某些船)这一条规定,确实比国际公约要求还高,估计明年规范会。。。。
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发表于 2012-1-19 19:11 | 显示全部楼层 来自: 中国上海
回复 73# 老侠客


   开个玩笑. 同意你的观点. 搞设计得需要有实践经验, 最好使用和制造经历都有.
另外,你说的是小鬼子国吧. 现在也变了哟.
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发表于 2012-1-19 19:16 | 显示全部楼层 来自: 中国上海
回复 73# 老侠客


    开个玩笑.同意你的观点,搞设计的要有实践经历,最好同时有正规的使用和生产经历.
另外,你说的是小鬼子国吧, 现在也变了哟.
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发表于 2012-1-19 19:20 | 显示全部楼层 来自: 中国上海
回复  ge2000

我只是举例说,大概那么个意思。

非得3+3+3++3是抬杠呵。
老侠客 发表于 2012-1-19 16:31



    开个玩笑. 举双手赞成你的观点. 搞设计得要求现场实践经历,最好是正规的使用和生产经历.
另外,你说的是小鬼子国吧.现在也开始变了哟.
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匿名
匿名  发表于 2012-3-2 20:26 来自: 中国广东广州
连ABS都收入降低了,这叫CCS还怎么活?
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发表于 2012-3-7 10:57 | 显示全部楼层 来自: 加拿大
热烈祝贺ABS成为CCS第二。
还得设上党办,工会,哈哈
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发表于 2013-7-10 21:27 | 显示全部楼层 来自: 中国江苏南通
如今的船检已经不是十年前的了,混混而已,中国人做船检就是想赚点钱,搞搞就有钱了,
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