15位国外同行对中国造船的10多个意见，你有补充的吗

歪鼻子公主 · 发表于 2013-1-15 09:50

各位，早。
前些日子在国外论坛发了个帖子，引起部分共鸣。于是我就想听听国内同行的看法，有没有人能一起探讨一下。
我说中国的船厂输在质量和服务上，你认为呢？看看国外同行的观点，希望对我们的未来有启发。
帖子链接-China fails in the service and quality

aqwe · 发表于 2013-1-15 10:28

看不到你的鼻子…你是来打广告的?

malcolm · 发表于 2013-1-15 10:34

看不到帖子，需要注册，估计是广告。

小小安全员 · 发表于 2013-1-15 10:36

楼主啊你可长点心吧

billjia · 发表于 2013-1-15 21:25

malcolm 发表于 2013-1-15 10:34
看不到帖子，需要注册，估计是广告。

没有广告啊。这个就是希望大家能交流交流而已。

歪鼻子公主 · 发表于 2013-1-17 08:56

China fails in the service and quality
Absolutely China made vessels have the lowest price in the world.But you will have to meet with a lot of problems after delivery. The design, structure,equipment and so on will ask you to care about. The problem is that you can not find the following good service or even can not find any service for some equipment. The manufacturers' after sales department can not speak English or they do not check their e-mails regularly. Or there are no after sales department. You will never expect to find some service station outside of China.

歪鼻子公主 · 发表于 2013-1-17 08:56

EPHREM CARRI • There are serious flaws in the Quality Management Systems, certified or un-certified, claimed to be followed by many Chinese yards. Many times, quality assurance documents remain locked up safely in the show cases in the corporate offices of the companies. "Doing things correctly first time and every time", ""quality pays", "quality is everybody's concern" etc are written in bold letters at strategic locations; but hardly any one is bothered.

歪鼻子公主 · 发表于 2013-1-17 08:57

emre ucuncu • I fully agree with u!

歪鼻子公主 · 发表于 2013-1-17 08:57

Duan kaiyang welding technique and inspection焊接技术/检验 • I work at Chinese shipyard now, and work at a ship owner before, both side do have experience.

qaulity problem hppens, and I discuss with several very experience UK expert( experience 40 years more), they told me their idea,

China, some times qaulity not good, some times qaulity not bad, it looks people. in this country, too much workers no have enough experience, and they change place quickly, they make mistake because they don't known what is right, what is wrong.

Now, ecnomic going down, it is good time for improve qaulity level.

歪鼻子公主 · 发表于 2013-1-17 08:57

Duan kaiyang welding technique and inspection焊接技术/检验 • My self experience approve some thing.

First time, China manufacture Jack-up leg, that super high strength steel A514/S690 (Thk=178mm Max) JU-2000E, I am chief welding engineer of NOBLE DRILLING leg team, we do our job, qaulity is good.

Now, many offshore-yard can manufacture leg, just example.

Yes, a lot cheating happens, we all known.

歪鼻子公主 · 发表于 2013-1-17 08:57

Duan kaiyang welding technique and inspection焊接技术/检验 • My UK friend also said: name means nothing, wrong people, wrong job, I belive this.

Even in China, if you find right people you can getting good qaulity.

Even in other country, if you find wrong people, you getting problem.

歪鼻子公主 · 发表于 2013-1-17 08:58

gaspar lucian • Yes, in China are a lot of quallity prbl. But also in Korrea, Europe, etc. Also must have correct people on the job and on the right place.
But also lets not forget about the class which in some moments are not capable in not exercise they jobs.
Why in others shipyards they are pushing the yards in respecting the internatl procedures or if not .... In producing one. And here, in China just clossing ....
????
I thing that every body in here are responsibil in not doing our jobs. Also chinees shipyard!!!!

歪鼻子公主 · 发表于 2013-1-17 08:58

yusuf doruk • Basis my personal experience with the Chinese yards, simply speaking the one of major missing thing in generally both for private and state yards as well is the existing of real quality control.

歪鼻子公主 · 发表于 2013-1-17 08:58

yusuf doruk • I mean the organisations are lack of this mentality, actually not only shipyards but also factories and other mid size subcontractors. Even tough the production facilities which are belong to one of world biggest licence. Can be discussed in many points and aspects in deeply, but in my opinion this is one of the significant problem for the chinese yards relatively comparing with Koreans or Japanese. And it seems it will not adopt in short time.

歪鼻子公主 · 发表于 2013-1-17 08:58

Ryszard Kuzniewicz • I do not have any experience with new building in China but have a lot with repair yards (COSCO Nantong). Situation with repair yards is much worse than with new constructions. This is common problem: shortage of qualified manpower. If one has ship for DD with a lot of steel repairs then China is the place to consider but in any other circumstances is not worth of even thinking. Chinese are aware of this therefore they are not very keen to develop ship repair business.
On the other hand you get what you pay for. Many would complain about quality of job and services, lack of technical documentation but if they decide to order and built the ship in China without owner’s supervision then you will definitely face serious problems. There were guys here on Linked in looking for help because they have ship under repairs (only 3 years old) and they were not able to make out who was the maker of stern tube seal. Is that yards fault? Definitely there is but not the biggest one. There are many third party supervisors on the market offering services in China but owners must be aware of potential risks of using such companies. What works in Korea not necessarily does in China.
Working in Nantong I used to be called Mr No and this was not without reason. You have to be on full alert 24/7 with 3 or even better 4 pairs of eyes and check, cross check, double check. Only then you can minimize risk of poor quality.
Wish you all happy New Year

歪鼻子公主 · 发表于 2013-1-17 08:58

roslailah ibrahim • Happy New Year,

Hi, everyone know that a new building in China is the lowest prise in the world but you will have to meet with a lot of problem after delivery. To build a new construction or do repair in Singapore, the prise is too expensive.
We just do the repair and upgrading for our client vessel. The vessel and barge just deliver from China.
My consultan at my Spiritech Shipyard Sdn Bhd is Singaporean (30 experience in Marine Line- Ishak Rahman)
Anyhow we still need experience technical guy to hendle a shipyard, expecially drawing, documentation, solas reqirement etc.
China is good, may be short of experience man power. Ms Rose.

歪鼻子公主 · 发表于 2013-1-17 08:58

Kevin Lu • As above Mr. Ryszard Kuzniewicz said "You have to be on full alert 24/7 with 3 or even better 4 pairs of eyes and check, cross check, double check. Only then you can minimize risk of poor quality."

Happy New Year!

歪鼻子公主 · 发表于 2013-1-17 08:59

EPHREM CARRI • One has to realize that quality assurance in a continual process that starts at the very initial ( conceptual) stage of the project. Most of the Owners do ignore this basic reality and expect the so called "consultant" to take care of quality. Very few Owners spend adequate resources to ensure that the "specification" is of acceptable quality. The compromises that are forced into the specs is the first and probably the worst "non-conformity".
Next comes the in adequate and incompetent assessment of the capability and competent assessment of the prospective shipyard. Here also, "cost cuts"are made in selecting the "least expensive"consultant. In house competence gets sidelined and when utilized, the criteria for selection of the "assessors" is not necessarily expertize .
The assessors very seldom go through the processes at the shipyard with "due diligence"and their reports do not reflect the ground realities.

Then comes the "commercial negotiations" at which the shipyard is squeezed and hammered and driven against the wall. Here also quality is compromized .

歪鼻子公主 · 发表于 2013-1-17 08:59

Duan kaiyang welding technique and inspection焊接技术/检验 • I gree with Mr.Ryszard Kuzniewicz:

You get what you pay for, In my eye, some owner only employ a structure inspector do every thing, then some mistake happen in welding and NDT, but he can not find problem.

If you pay for professional qaulity,you will find experience and professional people to do their job, then shipyard can not cheating you, even in China.

If you pay for quickly and cheap job, and only find one inspector look after every thing, you will gett reprot no problem and infact big problem.

歪鼻子公主 · 发表于 2013-1-17 08:59

Ryszard Kuzniewicz • Mr Duan
Fully agree with you but I would add something else: YGWYPF!!!! You can find same problems with yards all over the world. Some require more, some less care. Those complaining most should ask themselves this fundamental question: Did we do all possible from our side to avoid delivery of poor quality product? My answer is NO! Ship owners usually do very little or nothing. They usually hire one so called consultant not being aware that same guy supervises number of projects not necessarily at the same yard. I just fail to understand how the company which pays millions and millions of dollars for the ship can even think about savings on project supervision. Vessels are being built today in just few months so in total cost money spent for supervision is negligible. Although Korean yards delivering much better products these are also not perfect, could have been much better if supervised properly. I have an example when owners built series of VLCC in Korea supervised by third party and last vessel of the series was nothing better than the first one. As I said, third party consultants providing very poor product for many reasons. One is that they work in the number of project with very limited number of personnel involved. What many ship owners fail to understand is that 100k saved on supervision will cost them millions later.
Wish you happy and prosperous New Year