15位国外同行对中国造船的10多个意见，你有补充的吗

歪鼻子公主 · 发表于 2013-1-17 08:59

Christis Angelides • Agree in general with most of the above comments. However, it is still possible to get a good quality vessel made in China. Prior signing any new building contract: Make a full investigation of the shipyard capabilities, expertise and facilities, visit the shipyard and get evidence for the quality of work, meet the key personnel and challenge their expertise, study carefully the design and building specification and make all necessary changes, accept only reputable makers of proven quality and worldwide service network, select a reliable classification society with strong representation at the shipyard. Most important: employ a professional supervision team (Hull, Machinery, Electrical and Coating) with clear instructions to inspect and accept only good quality production. Finally monitor closely the progress of the new building and do not accept any discount in matter quality. The above measures may cost some additional money but in this way you have good chances to get a good quality vessel.

歪鼻子公主 · 发表于 2013-1-17 08:59

Bruce Daley • Fully agree with you Christis I have worked in China yards many times over the yearsand have over seen some very good quality work but end of the day all down to owners, also Korea and Japan and believe me if you don`t have a strong site team with full backing from the owners in Korea or Japan then pack your bags and go home as they are 100% production end of the day the owners get what they pay for, as we know a lot of owners order the ships to be built in these yards but before they are built they have already sold them on, so no matter how good the site team is regarding quality etc. all depends on the owners and there way of doing business, if they are building a vessel to keep then a good quality minded strong site team will be required and even then the site team has to work as one and together, if the owners pay peanuts then they end up with monkeys

歪鼻子公主 · 发表于 2013-1-17 08:59

Raymond Chan • Most ship owners have the opinion that they can save 100% of the cost difference between a Korea/Japanese yard and a Chinese yard. If that is the case then the project is doomed.
In order to have a good ship no matter what yard first you need a strong specs. Determine the make of equipment you want. Many of the European designed equipment are manufactured in China. Some of the cost saved should provide a very strong site management team. Lastly owners should take a pro-active role in the construction process to ensure a good quality ship. Site managers will never have the same hold as compared to the actual owner's representative.

歪鼻子公主 · 发表于 2013-1-17 08:59

Capt.S.M.Shah Alam • I did take over new vessel from Chinese ship yard and i solemnly agree with.

歪鼻子公主 · 发表于 2013-1-17 09:00

Horst Peters • Quality has its price, simple as that.
Buy Dutch products !!!

歪鼻子公主 · 发表于 2013-1-17 09:00

Daniele Vannucci • in my humble opinion, a good start would be to install systems designed by companies to ensure coverage and aftermarket quality materials' high that are traceable in the world.This does not mean selling the knowhow, if the Shipyard is an agreement of mutual healthy and seriousness' professional to serve as a deterrent to a possible exploitation of knowhow.In this mode will be possible build very quality boats and to ensure quality certificate.

歪鼻子公主 · 发表于 2013-1-17 09:00

Duan kaiyang welding technique and inspection焊接技术/检验 • One more idea about main topic, I belive to be a owner will be more valuable than work for ship yard, because I just try.

Chinese shipyard qaulity target is owner signed only, so if owner very strong and profecssional, they have to do it right.

When I belong to shipyard, some time I find welding mistake on site and inform product people and QC people, it doesn't work some time. I can only control myself job right, that is much less than owner can do, so I leave shipyard now and finding owner job.

More improtant roles for qaulity of project, expectily for offshore project, welding and NDT is very improtant.

歪鼻子公主 · 发表于 2013-1-17 09:00

XianDang Lin • I do agree with the opinion that many vessels made in chinese shipyards quality are not so good and to be improved . but also I do think some kind of vessles ( not so high advanced technique ) can be deliveried successfully with acceptable quality standard .otherwise we can not explain why so many owners choose chinese shipyards in these years .
the key point is ,how we can get a acceptable quality vessel from chinese shipyard at a relatively low cost ? this issue is not so simple but most important and key steps is the specification and drawing adequate reviewing , investigation of shipyard and maker approval , and strong and qualified site supervision team , just as Mr. Christis said . and more , ( in my humble opinion ), the supervision team members should include local qualified naval architect , so to deeply understanding the chinese working style and chinese culture backgrounds .

very pivotal character for the site supervisor is the high morality level , of course , the plenty of experience and major knowledge as the basic requirement .

it is the owner boss who decide which shipyard to build the ship , at a good business cost , and it is the qualified new shipbuilding consultant and supervisors , who try our best to get acceptable quality vessels .

only complaining is nothing , after complaining , let's hard working .

wish all the friends of the world , old and new , happy new year !

歪鼻子公主 · 发表于 2013-1-17 09:00

Jaebong Lee • The concept difference for shipbuilding execution makes quality and service value difference.

Korean good shipyards consider the design and production technology as the first priority.
So Human resources are the base of technology and the most important resource.

But Chinese consider the production facility, specially bigger facility, the most important assets. Investment on development technology specially design and production methods welding has been very small comparatively to facility.

Cheaper labor can not be competitive any more in modern ship building.
Let us consider the followings

1. Wedge level is 20% of Korean level, but production value per person is also similar. Cheaper labors can not contribute on competitiveness.
2. Production lead time in shop and dry dock are 3 times longer than that in Korean shipyards. These mean Chinese are paying Min. twice expense in differential cost and interest and management cost and utility cost.
3. Chinese ships are heavier to Koreans by 3~4% and producing 4~5% more steel scrap, The benefits from cheaper steel price in China can compensate effectiveness difference of steel.
4. No of parts (steel parts, pipe spool parts) is higher by 10~ 20%. This creates bigger handling cost and joining cost.

Those mentioned above are several core items the difference between Korean & Chinese shipyards.

歪鼻子公主 · 发表于 2013-1-17 09:00

jerry zhang • I dont understand what kind of after service from your side want , to be honest, most chinese shipyards are only making the hull and painting job of the vessel, almost all equipments are inported or made under authority of the equipment manufacture.
In China, there are a lot of shipyards, there are some yards have the problems you met. but a lot of Chinese shipyards are good, such as dalian shipyard, SWS shipyard ,hudong shipyard and so on. But they are not cheap, possibly you did not cooperate with these shipyards due to this reason.
for my understand, to shipowner, building the vessel is no difference with shopping in marcket, supermarket or shopping mall, different place decides different service of course also quality.
UK has the most advanced shipyard, and they used to built TITANIC, sank but the shipyard did not send any after sales to serve the owner.

龙娃娃 · 发表于 2013-1-17 09:00

是来看鼻子歪到啥程度的:

歪鼻子公主 · 发表于 2013-1-17 09:00

Ryszard Kuzniewicz • Jerry
You probably know that there are some owners who decide to fit equipment of unknown local brands due to low cost. They seem to forget that for this equipment services and spare parts will not be available(at least not on short notice) because suppliers do not have global network and are known only locally. This absolutely does not mean that local product are of very poor quality. These may be good ,only diamonds are forever but machinery and parts are not.

歪鼻子公主 · 发表于 2013-1-17 09:01

Jaebong Lee • The mind set toward customer of leaders in Chinese shipyard looks different from the Korean's.

歪鼻子公主 · 发表于 2013-1-17 09:01

XianDang Lin • Mr. Jaebong is the really one who deeply knows the shipyard management . for most chinese shipyards ( I am not quite sure the top ones ), the skillfull and experienced designers too much shortage , while so many young designers without local spot views ( i means the way of thinking and solving problems ) you can find everywhere . so many young guys hate the local hard working enviroment even when they just left college . another chinese shipyard shortage is the labour character. i means not only technique skill but also the faith to the shipyard . they cann't trust the yard they are working for , while the yard never trust and respect them .

we should admit the gap between the chinese shipyards and korean or japanese yards , but also we should admit quite some chinese shipyards are of good level .

you will get what you pay for . the owner benefit is that they can get relatively acceptable quality vessels whil payed at a relatively low cost . this should be what we are talking about .

thanks .

歪鼻子公主 · 发表于 2013-1-17 09:01

jerry zhang • Ryszard:

you are right. simply thinking, people will get what they pay for. not
more, not less.

I dont think Chinese shipyards are better than south korea or japanese
shipyards, but they are still improving. even south korean shipyards, they
will only do what the owners paid for, not more. sometimes, chinese
shipyards will follow the owners requirements even beyond the contract,
just for make the owners happy and speed up vessel delivery.

At 2013-01-04 01:46:30,"Shipbuilding Industry and Professional"

歪鼻子公主 · 发表于 2013-1-17 09:01

C. Savescu • Agree with Jerry ! Try to do the job very well and you will have a quality that you pay ! Supervisors are different !

歪鼻子公主 · 发表于 2013-1-17 09:01

Ryszard Kuzniewicz • Mr Peters
Dutch products are nothing different than Chinese ones. Some are better some worse. This applies to shipping industry but if you want to go further, for example food industry, Dutch products are of the lowest quality. I have been sailing on Dutch ships for nearly 2 years and sad to say this was my biggest mistake I have ever made.I have a lot of knowledge about Dutch food products. I sailed on few vessels built in Holland (Ferrus Smith Shipyard) and honestly speaking these are centuries behind Korean or Japanese products.

歪鼻子公主 · 发表于 2013-1-17 09:01

Jaebong Lee • Dear Mr. KUznie!
Some of Dutch ships will be good and some will be worse. Korean and Japanese ships are not always good. Only some of them are good.

歪鼻子公主 · 发表于 2013-1-17 09:02

Ryszard Kuzniewicz • Dear Mr Lee
I did not say that all Korean and Japanese ships are good but still average product from these yards are centuries ahead of best Dutch products, with respect to design and quality.

歪鼻子公主 · 发表于 2013-1-17 09:02

Horst Peters • Dear Mr. Kuzniewicz ;
This discussion started with:
“China fails in the service and quality
Absolutely China made vessels have the lowest price in the world.”

My comment was:
Quality has its price, simple as that.

This is a general statement and applicable all over the world.
As extra I mentioned, proud as I am to be Dutch, buy Dutch (industrial) products, pay for it and you will get the best services ever, try my company : )

Regarding your comment about the quality of food, this has nothing to do with this discussion and remains a matter of taste.