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造船人如何对待过分精明的希腊船东

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发表于 2012-7-23 22:26 | 显示全部楼层 |阅读模式 来自: 中国上海
造船人如何对待过分精明的希腊船东?
提出这个问题,旨在抛砖引玉,希望造船人贡献一些亲身的体会和经验,使得船友们能跟那些过分精明的希腊或其他国家的船东有理有节地斗争。

听朋友讲,2000到2003年,希腊船东曾今搞倒当时的几个国内船厂,也连带搞倒了一些官员。有知道内情的船友,不妨贡献一些内情,便于船友们借鉴。

近来,听了一个小故事,希腊船东为了免费给一艘合同生效后的在造船加大发电机容量,便于将来加装压载处理系统,在电站容量计算的时候,要求船舶在装卸货状态,开一台主机滑油泵(推辞是主机厂推荐),开一台高温水泵,开四台机舱风机,开两台压载泵泵。。。

还听到一个船东,在建造合同谈判阶段,要求在合同中的违约条款中,注明航速低于设计航速0.1节就开始高额罚款。。。

不一,等等,

希望,船友们贡献一些经验。。。
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龙船学院
发表于 2012-7-23 22:41 来自手机 | 显示全部楼层 来自: 中国辽宁大连
帮你顶一下帖吧!希腊的船东都是比较变态的!我们公司的希腊船,要求外板焊道!一个黑点不准有,据说有些公司都拒接希腊船,。
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 楼主| 发表于 2012-7-23 23:01 | 显示全部楼层 来自: 中国上海
caoyongzhen 发表于 2012-7-23 22:41
帮你顶一下帖吧!希腊的船东都是比较变态的!我们公司的希腊船,要求外板焊道!一个黑点不准有,据说有些公 ...

谢谢! 不妨透一下:国有厂?还是私人厂。对待他们的无理要求,有什么策列。。。
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发表于 2012-7-24 07:57 | 显示全部楼层 来自: 中国上海
希腊船东都搞不定还造什么船,关门歇歇吧。
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发表于 2012-7-24 09:22 | 显示全部楼层 来自: 中国广东广州
合理的要求可以接受喽!
不合理的就量力而行喽!
说实话,有些人喜欢花小钱办大事喽!
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发表于 2012-7-24 09:33 | 显示全部楼层 来自: 中国上海
说白了做都是能做的,关键是成本问题.
这个需要前期谈合同和签规格书的时候仔细点,把能想到的事情写下来.
不要想当然到时候会怎么样怎么样的.
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发表于 2012-7-24 09:53 | 显示全部楼层 来自: 美国
他们
很讨厌
很讨厌
很讨厌
据说还有些是农民
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发表于 2012-7-24 09:56 | 显示全部楼层 来自: 中国福建宁德
吃喝桑拿吗一条龙呗
希腊人喜欢这套,尤其是 PROFESSINOAL MASAJI
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发表于 2012-7-24 10:23 | 显示全部楼层 来自: 中国江苏苏州
先礼后兵吧
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 楼主| 发表于 2012-7-24 11:06 | 显示全部楼层 来自: 中国香港
nxzhankun 发表于 2012-7-24 10:23
先礼后兵吧

你可曾经听说过:2002年,希腊船东设局到一个建造能力无法造54000的船厂,签了合同。后来,船厂发现无能力建造(船台问题),赔了巨额款。
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发表于 2012-7-24 11:12 | 显示全部楼层 来自: 中国辽宁大连
我们的大舟  考了!
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 楼主| 发表于 2012-7-24 11:15 | 显示全部楼层 来自: 中国香港
lzj245179162 发表于 2012-7-24 11:12
我们的大舟  考了!


Soory, i cann't guess what are you talking about.
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发表于 2012-7-24 11:31 | 显示全部楼层 来自: 中国上海
江海直达 发表于 2012-7-24 11:06
你可曾经听说过:2002年,希腊船东设局到一个建造能力无法造54000的船厂,签了合同。后来,船厂发现无能力 ...

好奇是怎么设局的,能不能造这种船船厂的人不知道?
还是买通船厂的经营副总?
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发表于 2012-7-24 11:34 | 显示全部楼层 来自: 中国江苏南通
一向不喜欢希腊船东
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发表于 2012-7-24 11:54 | 显示全部楼层 来自: 中国辽宁大连
还是自己找原因吧,看看人家现代,三星,大宇,自己有底气,不怕你打官司。
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 楼主| 发表于 2012-7-24 12:51 | 显示全部楼层 来自: 中国香港
过冬穿马甲 发表于 2012-7-24 11:31
好奇是怎么设局的,能不能造这种船船厂的人不知道?
还是买通船厂的经营副总?

真实的故事,不是哗众!

在中国这种体制下的国有企业,什么都可以发生。
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发表于 2012-7-24 13:08 | 显示全部楼层 来自: 中国上海
江海直达 发表于 2012-7-24 12:51
真实的故事,不是哗众!

在中国这种体制下的国有企业,什么都可以发生。

拿出来八挂下呀.
听故事的请在楼下排队.
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发表于 2012-7-24 13:25 | 显示全部楼层 来自: 新加坡
过冬穿马甲 发表于 2012-7-24 13:08
拿出来八挂下呀.
听故事的请在楼下排队.

听故事排队来了
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 楼主| 发表于 2012-7-24 13:37 | 显示全部楼层 来自: 中国香港
aqwe 发表于 2012-7-24 13:25
听故事排队来了

以下摘自:七年
事情过去好几年了,以前只是从酒桌上听说过这件事。这不哥哥从技术转到商务了,研究造船合同偶然发现了这个案例。于是乎哥哥发挥以前在船院1号楼偷窥的精神,再次将这个案子翻出来炒一炒。内容可能会给某些人带来不好的回忆。不过没事,重要的是在这件事情中学到了东西。让我们后辈知道了帝国主义亡我之心不死,落后就要被挨打的古训~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~可耻的分割线~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Covington Marine Corporation and Ors v Xiamen Shipbuilding Industry Co Ltd造船合同争议案作者: 发布时间:2007-07-06 浏览量:911Contract - Shipbuilding contracts providing for various conditi*** to be met before contract effective - Shipbuilder repudiating contract and alleging that conditi*** not met within prescribed period - Whether contracts automatically rescinded prior to builders' repudiation - Whether builders liable for breach of contract
Covington Marine Corporation and Ors v Xiamen Shipbuilding Industry Co Ltd - QBD (Com Ct) (Langley J) - 16 December 2005 (2006) 683 LMLN 2On 23 February 2003 the claimant buyers entered into four shipbuilding contracts with the defendant builders, each for one vessel, a 53,800 dwt bulk carrier, at a price of US$17,970,000 per vessel. Article 21 of each contract provided mutatis mutandis: "21. EFFECTIVENESS OF THIS CONTRACT This Contract shall become effective from the date of its execution by the parties provided that: ... (b) if any of the following conditi*** are not met in the following order (or such other order as the parties may agree) within 20 banking days from the date of this Contract, then this Contract shall be automatically rescinded (unless the party to whom performance is then next owed agrees otherwise): (i) agreement between the parties as to the supplier of the main engine described under Article 1(c)(ii), which the parties shall use their best endeavours to reach within 10 banking days from the date of this Contract; (ii) receipt by the Buyer of the Letter of Guarantee issued and registered in accordance with Article 10(h); (iii) receipt by the Buyer of evidence acceptable to the Buyer and the Guarantor of the validity and binding effect of this Contract ... (iv) receipt by the Builder of the Performance Guarantee issued in accordance with Article 10(i); (v)... Upon such rescission, the parties hereto shall be immediately and completely discharged from their obligati***, duties and/or liabilities under this Contract without incurring any liability whatsoever to each other. Article 1(c)(ii) provided: "(ii) The main propelling unit will c***ist of MAN B&W 6S50MC-C" [specificati*** thereafter set out] Article 10(h) provided: "(h) LETTER OF GUARANTEE As security for the due performance of its obligati*** under this Article 10, the Builder shall deliver ...to the Buyer ... an irrevocable and freely assignable letter of guarantee ... (the "Letter of Guarantee") ... ...." The obligati*** of the Builder under Article 10 were to refund sums paid by the Buyer prior to delivery of the vessel in the event that the Buyer was entitled to rescind the Contract. The guarantee referred to in Article 10(h) was referred to in the judgment as "the refund guarantee". Article 10(i) provided that the Buyer should deliver a performance guarantee to the Builder within 5 banking days of the receipt of the refund guarantee. On 18 March 2003 the builders' brokers sent the following letter to the buyers' brokers: ".... after very frank discussion with the yard at length, we think it is necessary to mention the following points A. Refund Guarantee [The letter stated that Exim Bank were insisting on certain wording]. B. Main Engine The Shipyard will agree to import the Main Engine subject to 1. The Buyer shall assist the yard to squeeze the price to the same level as domestic Licence Supplier or 2. The Buyer bears the costs of price difference after the shipyard present the Buyer clear evidence. Payment [performance] Guarantee Please find the attached payment guarantee proposed by Shipyard and accepted by some shipowners who ordered the vessel in the yard previously. We much appreciate if you pass the proforma to the Buyer and Buyer's bank for their comments and reference." On 19 March 2003 the buyers' brokers sent the following letter to the builders' brokers: "... The position under Article 21 can be summarised as follows: 1. In accordance with its terms, the Shipbuilding Contract is today fully effective and has been since the date of its execution. 2. The continuing effectiveness can now be confirmed as the following conditi*** have been lifted/extended: a. Article 21(a) - Opti***. ... The proposed wording for this option will be sent separately. b. Article 21(b)(i) - Main Engine. The Buyer will bear the additional costs, if any, arising from the importation of the main engine from Korea. c. Article 21(b)(ii) - Refund Guarantee. The Buyer ... appreciates that the Builder may require additional time to arrange ... to issue the refund guarantee. Being the party to whom performance is now due, the Buyer agrees to extend the 20 day period provided for under Article 21(b) for a further 10 banking days. Please advise whether the Builder believes this additional period is sufficient. d. ... e. Article 21(b)(iv) - Performance Guarantee. The Buyer has instructed its bank to issue the performance guarantee in the form of the attached agreed wording and will provide this document to the Builder in accordance with Article 10(i) notwithstanding the periods provided for in Article 21(b), as amended by this letter. f. ..." On 19 March 2003 the builders signed contracts to build essentially three of the same vessels for another buyer, and they refused to continue to perform the present contracts. The buyers accepted the conduct of the builders as a wrongful repudiation of their contracts. The dispute was referred to arbitration. The builders raised a jurisdiction issue, denying that any binding contracts had been concluded. The arbitrators held that the binding effect of the contracts was dependent upon the parties being able and willing to reach agreement inter alia on the supplier of the main engine within the prescribed time. The contracts had been automatically rescinded because no agreement had been reached on the supplier of the main engine within Article 21(b)(i) by 21 March 2003. The builders' letter of 18 March 2003 did not c***titute a firm offer capable of acceptance. The buyers appealed to the High Court. Held, that the 18 March letter was to be c***trued as making alternative offers open to acceptance in relation to the source and cost of the main engine. The 19 March letter was phrased in terms of acceptance and not further negotiation as regards the main engine. An objective reader would conclude that there was agreement on the main engine and so the need to move on to address the further items required to satisfy Article 21(b). Accordingly, the arbitrators were wrong in law to conclude that there was no agreement on the main engine. If there had been no agreement on the main engine the fact that the builders' had decided for commercial reas*** not to perform the contracts after 20 March 2003 precluded the builders' from relying upon such absence of agreement so as to invoke Article 21 as rescinding the contracts. Although the buyers could waive compliance with the builders' requirement under Article 21(b)(ii) to provide the refund guarantee within 20 days (ie by 21 March), there would remain the independent obligation on the builders' to provide the refund guarantee under Article 10(h) to which no time limit was applied. The 19 March letter was to be read as a waiver of the 20 day period and seeking to establish a reasonable time to discharge the obligation of the builders'. Accordingly, by deciding not to perform the contracts after 20 March 2003 the builders' were in repudiatory breach of contract. The appeal would be allowed. Simon Rainey QC and Simon Picken (Clifford Chance) for the buyers; Timothy Young QC (Lovells) for the builders. 哥顺手度娘了下当时的船价2003-2004年新船成交价格变化________________________________________http://www.jctrans.com 2004-11-22 8:10:00  船型
2003
年年初
2004
年年初
2004
9月中
2004
年内涨幅度(%
巨型油船(万美元)
6,410
7,700
10,000
29.90
苏伊士型油船(万美元)
4,420
5,150
6,400
24.30
阿芙拉型油船(万美元)
3,510
4,150
5,400
30.10
灵便型成品油船(万美元)
2,730
3,150
3,650
15.90
好望角型散货船(万美元)
3,660
4,800
6,100
27.10
巴拿马型散货船(万美元)
2,170
2,700
3,400
25.90
大灵便型散货船(万美元)
1,920
2,400
2,800
16.70
小灵便型散货船(万美元)
1,520
1,800
2,100
16.70
3500TEU集装箱船(万美元)
3,330
4,250
5,000
17.60
1100TEU集装箱船(万美元)
1,570
1,850
2,200
18.90
13.8立方万米LNG(万美元)
15,000
15,500
17,700
14.20
7.8立方万米LPG(万美元)
5,860
6,300
7,600
20.60
克拉克松新船价指数(万美元)
105
119
141
18.50
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~披露的船价是1720万美元,考虑到大灵便型都带吊车了,有个200万的差价,这个价格在当时不算低。只是后面船价的涨幅就不可预期了。这也可能是船厂拒绝履行合同的主要原因。后来双方走上了法律途径,据说还走了外交渠道,闹到铁娘子那里去了。这个案子动静很大,在英国闹得动静更大。法院推翻了仲裁庭的判决,根据《1996年英国仲裁法》之Section 69将有关法律问题上诉去了法院,并且推翻了仲裁裁决。当时中方指定的仲裁员有大名鼎鼎的-杨良宜先生。毕竟,中国人内心还是帮助中国人的,同样欧洲人也很难站在中国人这边。
9月三日的本站贴子:
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发表于 2012-7-24 14:30 | 显示全部楼层 来自: 中国上海
江海直达 发表于 2012-7-24 11:06
你可曾经听说过:2002年,希腊船东设局到一个建造能力无法造54000的船厂,签了合同。后来,船厂发现无能力 ...

船厂没能力还接,这才是真正的脑残
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