美国海军刚下单订造10艘沿海战舰

menglianglum · 发表于 2011-1-5 16:14

军舰需要有验船师的认证吗？
zhaojianke163 发表于 2011-1-2 19:02

军舰也需要“验船师”检验。但这个“验船师”不是我们通常所说船级社的“验船师”，而是“军代表”。
很有趣，六十年代大学毕业後，我被分配（注）当船级社的“验船师”，而有些同学到海军部门当“军代表”。有时大家在船厂相遇。他会问我的工作，而我则从不问他的工作，也不走近他的船。我们现在都老了，退休了。

注：
题外话-

（那时讲的是服从“分配”，不服从“分配”的话，后果不堪设想。有位高我一班的广东同学分到部队，这在当年是大家羡慕的，一去就是中尉，待遇也好，记得好像是78元/月。我们才61元/月。可他不接受分配，说是独子。结果学校贴出措辞严厉的布告。他回广州後就成为街道青年，长年没有工作。我想念这位同学，有机会会了解他的近况。）

szq · 发表于 2011-1-5 16:16

学习了军工不懂啊

大将 · 发表于 2011-1-6 09:32

这种船主要的战场是什么？
turesuperman 发表于 2011-1-5 15:21

“滨海战斗舰”这个名字不是已经很说明问题了吗？但印象里其设计中的作战范围包括深入别国河道……好长的手

turesuperman · 发表于 2011-1-6 09:36

回复 43# 大将

所以说么，醉翁之意不在酒～

大将 · 发表于 2011-1-6 09:39

回复 41# menglianglum

那时候不服从分配本身就已经是一件很难以想象的事情了。不接受分配，你能去哪里？

xuehu122 · 发表于 2011-1-6 14:02

学习点新东西,没想到LZ对军品一样有所见第,佩服呀!!!

aaa24614 · 发表于 2011-1-6 16:21

很有型

menglianglum · 发表于 2011-1-6 17:52

学习点新东西,没想到LZ对军品一样有所见第,佩服呀!!!
xuehu122 发表于 2011-1-6 14:02

不敢当。实在过奖。
对于军品，我一窍不通。充其量我只是知道潜水艇在水面以下航行，而水面舰艇在水面上航行而已。

因为我2010年12月30日收到这个船厂直接传来的信息，说是美国海军部门向它订购10条这种船。

本着俗话所说“知己知彼，。。。。。”，我上这个贴，想让网友和有关人士知道人家在做什么。我们是否需要做点什么。

我没有谈这种船的性能特点，也没有跟其他的舰艇做什么比较。

没想到，这个贴引起专家的兴趣，谈这种舰艇的缺点，另一种舰艇的优点。这本是好事。

但问题是：

我根本就没有谈这种船的性能特点或优点，美国海军部门愿意订购这款被专家认为有缺点的舰艇跟中国或中国人有什么关系？跟香港人有什么关系？跟海外华侨华人有什么关系？跟老伯我又有什么关系？怎么无端地把“美国国籍”冠在老伯我头上？莫名其妙！似乎有股阴风吹向残年风烛。

我以为这是一个涉及家教，修养，道德和遵守“龙de船人”网上纪律的问题。

如果我什么地方得罪了这位专家？希望网友们给老伯提个醒。谢谢。

=====

另外，虽是题外话，我必需指出真相：

奥斯塔船厂1988年设于澳洲西岸帕斯。1988年我即带了一个小组到那里去。没听说他们在澳大利亚墨尔本有厂。
另外，我还得到以下信息供参考：

Austal listed on the Australian Stock Exchange in December 1998 and has diversified its product base through acquisitions of local shipbuilders, the establishment of a new US shipyard in Mobile, Alabama, and the recent purchase of an existing aluminium shipyard in Tasmania, Australia.

即他们在美国设了厂，是他们自愿的还是被迫的，不设厂就不能承造美国海军舰船，我不知道。以后有机会的话会问问，我想了解是不是跟“琼斯条款”有关。对此，我一知半解。
反正，美国经常以保护对国家安全有影响的领域和美国的国际技术领先地位为借口，模糊产业政策与其国家安全政策的界线，达到保护其本国产业的目的。

In 2004, the US Department of Defense awarded a final design contract for the US Navy's Littoral Combat Ship (LCS) project to prime contractor Bath Iron Works, a General Dynamics company. Austal is the LCS seaframe designer and builder. The first order for a US$223 million prototype was successfully awarded to the General Dynamics/Austal Littoral Combat Ship Team in October 2005.

LCS 2 "Independence" was launched at Austal's Mobile, Alabama shipyard in April 2008. A contract for a second Austal designed and built LCS was awarded by the US Navy in May 2009.

即LCS2不是在澳洲造的，而是在它美国Mobile, Alabama的船厂造的。尽管奥斯塔船厂的总部在澳洲西岸帕斯。
至于人家用2年还是3年把这样的船造出来，我们好像也没有什么理由去鄙视人家。相反，我们倒是可以先问问我们自己，我们3年能造出来吗？

xuehu122 · 发表于 2011-1-7 10:05

不敢当。实在过奖。
对于军品，我一窍不通。充其量我只是知道潜水艇在水面以下航行，而水面舰 ...
menglianglum 发表于 2011-1-6 17:52

其实老伯也不用和那专家一般见识!他的所之也无非是道听途说和见于其他刊物而已.那个相关船厂能和您透漏相关信息,足见您给他们留下的良好印象.有些事情是清者自清的,您说呢!

turesuperman · 发表于 2011-1-7 10:15

仗势欺人

大将 · 发表于 2011-1-7 14:42

军舰不比民船，如果是采用了全新设计，那么花个三年时间细嚼慢咽我觉得可以理解——反正也不急着要用，况且这型船在美国海军未来构想中是占有相当重要的地位的，把建造工艺吃透，建造中出现的问题一一反馈改进好，后面的就可以下饺子了
说到她的造价，这可能也和采购量有关系
载蛋量的问题，我的理解是这型船既然要突出多任务转换性，那么必然在每一个任务包中都要做出妥协。或许我们可以把它理解为一个跟在老大屁股后面跟班打杂的，从擦桌子洗碗扫地端茶到乒乒乓乓什么都得能来两下，但你要指望他什么都做得好，那就不现实了

大将 · 发表于 2011-1-7 15:10

Here's more about it.
Littoral Combat Ship Contract Award Announced

         The Navy has awarded Lockheed Martin Corp. and Austal USA each a fixed-price incentive contract for the design and construction of a 10 ship block-buy, for a total of 20 littoral combat ships from fiscal 2010 through fiscal 2015.

         The amount awarded to Lockheed Martin Corp. for fiscal 2010 littoral combat ships is $436,852,639.  The amount awarded to Austal USA for the fiscal 2010 littoral combat ships is $432,069,883.  Both contracts also include line items for nine additional ships, subject to Congressional appropriation of each year’s Littoral Combat Ship (LCS) Program requirements.  When all 10 ships of each block buy are awarded, the value of the ship construction portion of the two contracts would be $3,620,625,192 for Lockheed Martin Corp., and $3,518,156,851 for Austal USA.  The average cost of both variants including government-furnished equipment and margin for potential cost growth across the five year period is $440 million per ship.  The pricing for these ships falls well below the escalated average Congressional cost cap of $538 million.

         “The awards represent a unique and valuable opportunity to lock in the benefits of competition and provide needed ships to our fleet in a timely and extraordinarily cost effective manner,” said Secretary of the Navy Ray Mabus.

         This award is a unique opportunity to maximize the buying power on the LCS Program by leveraging the highly effective competition between the bidders.  Each contractor’s 10-ship bids reflect mature designs, investments made to improve performance, stable production, and continuous labor learning at their respective shipyards.  The award was based on limited competition between teams led by Lockheed Martin and Austal USA.  Under these contracts, both shipbuilders will also deliver a technical data package as part of the dual award, allowing the government a wide range of viable alternatives for effective future competition.

         This approach, which is self-financed within the program by adding a year to the procurement and utilizing a portion of the greater than $2 billion total savings (throughout the Future Years Defense Program), enables the Navy to efficiently produce these ships at an increased rate and meet operational requirements sooner.

         Chief of Naval Operations Adm. Gary Roughead praised the Navy’s plan to add both ship designs to the fleet:  “The LCS is uniquely designed to win against 21st century threats in coastal waters posed by increasingly capable submarines, mines and swarming small craft.  Both designs provide the capabilities our Navy needs, and each offers unique features that will provide fleet commanders with a high level of flexibility in employing these ships.”

         The innovation and willingness to seize opportunities displayed in this LCS competition reflect exactly the improvements to ‘the way we do business’ in order to deliver better value to the taxpayer and greater capability to the warfighter.  Moreover, the Navy’s LCS acquisition strategy meets the spirit and intent of the Weapon Systems Acquisition Reform Act of 2009 and reflects the Navy’s commitment to affordability.  The benefits of competition, serial production, employment of mature technologies, design stability, fixed-price contracting, commonality, and economies of scale will provide a highly affordable ship construction program.

         “The rigor and diligence of the source selection process has resulted in the acquisition of quality, capable ships at fair prices,” said Assistant Secretary of the Navy for Research, Development and Acquisition Sean Stackley.  “This dual award strategy exemplifies the Navy's compliance with Secretary Gates’ and Under Secretary Carter’s direction to improve the buying power of the Defense Department.  Both teams have shown cost control on their second ships, and we look forward to the delivery of these capable fleet assets in the future.”

         The Navy remains committed to a 55-ship program and the LCS is needed to fill critical, urgent warfighting requirements gaps that exist today.  The LCS Program is required to establish and maintain U.S. Navy dominance in the littorals and sea lanes of communication choke points around the world.  The LCS Program operational requirements have been virtually unchanged since the program’s inception in 2002 and the both hull forms will meet the Navy’s operational warfighting requirements.

大将 · 发表于 2011-1-8 12:55

Littoral Combat Ship Contract Award Announced
滨海战斗舰合同一女二嫁

The Navy has awarded Lockheed Martin Corp. and Austal USA each a fixed-price incentive contract for the design and construction of a 10 ship block-buy, for a total of 20 littoral combat ships from fiscal 2010 through fiscal 2015.
日前霉海军向“落马公司”和“熬死他霉国”公司各授予一份固定价格加奖金合同，分别批量设计和制造10条战舰，共计为20条滨海战斗舰，合同期间为2010至2015财年。

The amount awarded to Lockheed Martin Corp. for fiscal 2010 littoral combat ships is $436,852,639. The amount awarded to Austal USA for the fiscal 2010 littoral combat ships is $432,069,883. Both contracts also include line items for nine additional ships, subject to Congressional appropriation of each year’s Littoral Combat Ship (LCS) Program requirements. When all 10 ships of each block buy are awarded, the value of the ship construction portion of the two contracts would be $3,620,625,192 for Lockheed Martin Corp., and $3,518,156,851 for Austal USA. The average cost of both variants including government-furnished equipment and margin for potential cost growth across the five year period is $440 million per ship. The pricing for these ships falls well below the escalated average Congressional cost cap of $538 million.

其中落马公司2010财年滨海战斗舰的合同金额为436,852,639霉元，熬死他霉国2010财年滨海战斗舰的合同金额则为432,069,883霉元。两份合同均包含了九条追加项目的内容，根据国会对于各年度滨海战斗舰项目的拨款要求执行。当10条舰的批量采购全部完成后，两份合同的单舰建造价格为：落马公司，3,620,625,192霉元；熬死他霉国公司，3,518,156,851霉元。加上政府提供的设备以及在五年期内成本上升的潜在可能后，两型战舰的平均价格为4.4亿霉元，远低于国会设定的费用上限5.38亿美元。

“The awards represent a unique and valuable opportunity to lock in the benefits of competition and provide needed ships to our fleet in a timely and extraordinarily cost effective manner,” said Secretary of the Navy Ray Mabus.

“此次采购是一个难得而又宝贵的良机，即锁定了竞争所带来的好处，又让我们及时得到了所需的战舰，而且还非常的合算”海军秘书蕾-抹布丝如是说。

This award is a unique opportunity to maximize the buying power on the LCS Program by leveraging the highly effective competition between the bidders. Each contractor’s 10-ship bids reflect mature designs, investments made to improve performance, stable production, and continuous labor learning at their respective shipyards. The award was based on limited competition between teams led by Lockheed Martin and Austal USA. Under these contracts, both shipbuilders will also deliver a technical data package as part of the dual award, allowing the government a wide range of viable alternatives for effective future competition.

这次采购利用了两家竞标者之间的热烈竞争，可谓LCS（滨海战斗舰简称，下同）项目采购能力最大化的天赐良机。两家承包商各自的10条战舰背后都有着成熟的设计，对性能提升的投入，稳定的产能，以及厂内工人能力的持续提升。这次采购的基础是落马和熬死他霉国两家率领的团队之间的有限度的竞争。根据合同，两家造船厂还会提供一个技术数据包，以便政府能够找到大量的其他替代建造厂，以利于未来的有效竞争，这也属于这次双重采购的一部分。

This approach, which is self-financed within the program by adding a year to the procurement and utilizing a portion of the greater than $2 billion total savings (throughout the Future Years Defense Program), enables the Navy to efficiently produce these ships at an increased rate and meet operational requirements sooner.
这一方式没有占用另外的资金，而是通过给采购期增加一年时间、再从节约下来的20多亿美元中活用一小部分（以《未来年度防卫专案》总体计）来实现的。这种做法使得海军能够以更快的速度高效地生产这些战舰，并且更快地达到作战要求。

先弄这么多，后面一半且容我慢慢续来

大将 · 发表于 2011-1-8 16:11

Chief of Naval Operations Adm. Gary Roughead praised the Navy’s plan to add both ship designs to the fleet:  “The LCS is uniquely designed to win against 21st century threats in coastal waters posed by increasingly capable submarines, mines and swarming small craft.  Both designs provide the capabilities our Navy needs, and each offers unique features that will provide fleet commanders with a high level of flexibility in employing these ships.”
海军作战部主管格里-粗脑壳对海军将两型舰艇一同接纳进入舰队序列的计划提出了表扬，说：“ 21世纪沿岸水域的威胁来自于越来越厉害的潜艇、水雷、以及群集的小型舰艇，而LCS具有独特的设计，可以战胜他们。两款设计都提供了我们海军所需要的能力，也都具备了独特的性能，令指挥官在使用这些舰艇的时候可以获得高度的灵活性。”

         The innovation and willingness to seize opportunities displayed in this LCS competition reflect exactly the improvements to ‘the way we do business’ in order to deliver better value to the taxpayer and greater capability to the warfighter.  Moreover, the Navy’s LCS acquisition strategy meets the spirit and intent of the Weapon Systems Acquisition Reform Act of 2009 and reflects the Navy’s commitment to affordability.  The benefits of competition, serial production, employment of mature technologies, design stability, fixed-price contracting, commonality, and economies of scale will provide a highly affordable ship construction program.
在这场LCS竞争中所体现出来的创新精神以及抓住机遇的精神正体现了我们做事方法的改进，可以令纳税人的钱更有所值，也给了海军将士以更强大的能力。除此之外，海军此次LCS的采购策略正符合了2009年《武器系统采购改革法案》的精神与意图，体现了海军正致力于采购我们能用得起的武器。竞争、成系列生产、使用成熟技术、保持设计的稳定性、固定价格合同、通用性、以及规模效益，这些好处将让我们的舰艇建造项目的价格更可以承受。

         “The rigor and diligence of the source selection process has resulted in the acquisition of quality, capable ships at fair prices,” said Assistant Secretary of the Navy for Research, Development and Acquisition Sean Stackley.  “This dual award strategy exemplifies the Navy's compliance with Secretary Gates’ and Under Secretary Carter’s direction to improve the buying power of the Defense Department.  Both teams have shown cost control on their second ships, and we look forward to the delivery of these capable fleet assets in the future.”
海军研发与采购助理部长行-堆起来说：“认真、严格执行采购甄选程序给我们带来了物美价廉的战舰”他说，“这个一女二嫁的方略体现海军遵守盖子部长以及马车夫副部长关于提高国防部购买力的指示。两个团队都对他们的第二条船进行了成本控制，我们盼望着交船的那一天。”

         The Navy remains committed to a 55-ship program and the LCS is needed to fill critical, urgent warfighting requirements gaps that exist today.  The LCS Program is required to establish and maintain U.S. Navy dominance in the littorals and sea lanes of communication choke points around the world.  The LCS Program operational requirements have been virtually unchanged since the program’s inception in 2002 and the both hull forms will meet the Navy’s operational warfighting requirements.
海军仍坚持55条战舰计划，而LCS要被用来填补当前严重且急迫的作战需求缺口。LCS项目的用途在于，在全球范围的濒海以及海上交通线咽喉地区确立并维持霉国海军的优势地位。自从2002年LCS项目肇始以来，其作战要求几乎一直没有改变，而这两种船体形式都将能满足海军行动的作战需求。

续完

很有意思的介绍，是不是？

menglianglum · 发表于 2011-1-9 09:03

Thank you very much,GENERAL!
You have done a perfect translation to this information.

So, we could see the so called "55-ship and LCS" program is not aimed for protection of American's coast but " to establish and maintain U.S. Navy dominance in the littorals and sea lanes of communication choke points around the world".

blackmclaren · 发表于 2011-1-9 22:09

大将，这是你自己翻译的还是转的？闷了好几天，难得看到点有趣的东西。

大将 · 发表于 2011-1-11 09:33

回复 55# menglianglum

是的，霉国的野心从来都是这么赤裸裸的，谁要是说看不到就真的难免要纳罕他的眼睛干什么去了
而且，very interestingly，霉国总是以同样的程度在国内事务中坚持'check and balance' whereas 'American dominance' internationally而不觉得其中有什么矛盾之处

大将 · 发表于 2011-1-11 09:37

大将，这是你自己翻译的还是转的？闷了好几天，难得看到点有趣的东西。
blackmclaren 发表于 2011-1-9 22:09

这种话你也说的出口？

看到如此彪悍的给力文风，难道不应该在第一时间认出并坚信这必是出自本座巨笔？居然还好意思跑来问什么“这是你自己翻译的还是转的”？我真想直接把你扣成论坛叫花子！

blackmclaren · 发表于 2011-1-11 10:32

这种话你也说的出口？
看到如此彪悍的给力文风，难道不应该在第一时间认出并坚信这必是出自本 ...
大将发表于 2011-1-11 09:37

至于么，确认一下你的版权，就跳得跟跳蚤一样。下次你来了我给你接风。

海洋工程系 · 发表于 2011-1-12 18:41

美国造船应经不赢利了，只有养活这几个军舰制造厂商了